Getting the state of load management switch on budget

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cincuranet
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Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Saturday 02 June 2018 21:11

Last edited by cincuranet on Tuesday 05 June 2018 15:39, edited 1 time in total.

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EdddieN
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Saturday 02 June 2018 22:24

Really interesting! But the utility is able to disconnect the wall switch? What if you need to have something working?

Sorry a bit off topic but when reading your blog, I was quite shocked.

Do they replace the wall sockets or just add an extra circuit to your house?
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Sunday 03 June 2018 11:17

EdddieN wrote:
Saturday 02 June 2018 22:24
Really interesting! But the utility is able to disconnect the wall switch? What if you need to have something working?
These are "special" sockets. Not the regular ones in every room. For example I have 4 regular sockets in my office and these are always working. And one extra that's controlled as described in the blog post.

Only few rooms are equipped with them.
EdddieN wrote:
Saturday 02 June 2018 22:24
Do they replace the wall sockets or just add an extra circuit to your house?
It's an extra circuit. In fact every socket has it's own circuit because it's expected you'd put something like a small electric fire/heater into it.

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Sunday 03 June 2018 18:40

I see... that makes sense. So you could detect at the fuse box if the circuits are active with a simple CT and looking at the frequency... if you are interested to play a bit with it a bit more, I’m in! Energy is my thing

Have a look at the Community Hardware post, if you are interested?
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Tuesday 05 June 2018 15:32

EdddieN wrote:
Sunday 03 June 2018 18:40
I see... that makes sense. So you could detect at the fuse box if the circuits are active with a simple CT and looking at the frequency... if you are interested to play a bit with it a bit more, I’m in! Energy is my thing
Putting aside that it's illegal to do any work in your fuse box unless you're certified electrician here.
I'm not an expert on CT clamps etc., but if these can sense even without any current (no device, no current) flowing, then this would work as well.
EdddieN wrote:
Sunday 03 June 2018 18:40
Have a look at the Community Hardware post, if you are interested?
I will.

BTW at the moment I'm looking at Qubino 3-phase meter. I'd like to have it my house. Trying to justify the purchase. ;)

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Wednesday 06 June 2018 10:09

Re the qubino 3 phase meter. I couldn’t see the price but a normal 3 phase meter with a pulse output also is an option. Obviously you’ll need a pulse counter.

If accuracy is not an issue, then 3 current clamps and a bit of math should do it too. Happy to help, just ask!
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Wednesday 06 June 2018 10:24

With the pulse output the information about phases is lost. I don't like that.

You're right that the Qubino is bit expensive, but compared to what it measures (V, A, W, Kwh, Kvar, KVarh, kVAh, PF) and i.e. price for Aeotec Meter (uses clamps), it's not that bad. I like that it's DIN mounted, thus it's neat compared to any clamps solution (and I like my fuse box neat as much as possible).

What I'm struggling with, is seeing the why it's useful in long term. Sure, first month I'll check the data daily, but then? Will it provide some useful insights? Is i.e. monthly usage something I would look at? And do something with that information? Maybe you have some "tips"?

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Wednesday 06 June 2018 10:47

Yes, that often is the case. Something new for a few weeks and then forgotten... In my opinion I would always go for something that works as a tool, or targets a pain - for example financial cost.

To give you an example, I monitor oil consumption (for heating) as I think I use a lot, I had a flow meter for over 2 years and I still use it daily to check how I’m doing, adjunct settings on my heating control system or even replace parts of it. Two years into it and one tank of oil less per year I’m still working with it.

The other electrical things I like is to sub-meter the different circuits of the house so I know how much energy is going in total for lighting, sockets, kitchen... It is quite an invasive installation on the fuse box (I did it installing small single phase din rail meters with a pulse output as accuracy was important to me) but probably CTs will be ok. With these setup I could easily track where my standby consumption was going, not to mention that I could see when the kids had a shower too! :D (electric shower +10kW peak)

Long answer in short, if you really like to have lots of details on the electric network, why don’t you go for a proper panel meter (probably modbus, check the python script) and you can even monitor harmonics. Usually panel meters are c. €100-150 + CTs
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Wednesday 06 June 2018 20:05

My main switch/fusebox is like 60 meters from my house. So any wired connection is kind of problematic. That's why I was looking for i.e. the Qubino, because Z-Wave is wireless and I already have Z-Wave network. But I can think about it for sure. Thanks.

Re electric shower, the 10kW peak, that's like 43A (considering 230V). Interesting. Out of curiosity, do you know how long the peak lasts?

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Wednesday 06 June 2018 20:15

10 or even 12-13kW and this is for as long as you take a shower. So if it takes you 20 min to shower.... and that is 20 min x 12kW

Re the distance, 60m away will a challenge for Z-wave right? Maybe best WiFi with external antenna? A Pi vía wifi?
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Wednesday 06 June 2018 20:21

EdddieN wrote:
Wednesday 06 June 2018 20:15
10 or even 12-13kW and this is for as long as you take a shower. So if it takes you 20 min to shower.... and that is 20 min x 12kW
What? :shock: That's some serious current. What's your main breaker amperage? And more importantly the wires in your house.
EdddieN wrote:
Wednesday 06 June 2018 20:15
Re the distance, 60m away will a challenge for Z-wave right? Maybe best WiFi with external antenna? A Pi vía wifi?
I tested it, it's on the edge of range in my case. I plan to buy a 5V/12V roller shutter or something like that, put it into water-proof box and get it in front of garage (powering it from garage) to act as a repeater. That way the distance will be about 35-40m and that's fine-ish.

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Wednesday 06 June 2018 21:17

Haha! See attached, usually main circuits are up to 45Amps or so for houses with 1 shower. In my case it is a 100Amp feed.

One thing though, the showers are connected directly to the fuse board, not to sockets circuits for example. They need to have their own supply, like an electric oven.

Image

Re: distance, I’m trying to find some guinea pigs for my device but so far no luck.... I thought your big 3 phase supply could be a good candidate :D
viewtopic.php?t=21403
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Thursday 07 June 2018 7:50

EdddieN wrote:
Wednesday 06 June 2018 21:17
I’m trying to find some guinea pigs for my device but so far no luck.... I thought your big 3 phase supply could be a good candidate :D
viewtopic.php?t=21403
I've read the whole thread twice, but I'm not sure what's the goal. Is it "just" to have Domoticz in a nice box DIN mounted and have some I/O for extensibility + the measurements?

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Tuesday 28 August 2018 23:09

cincuranet wrote:
Thursday 07 June 2018 7:50
EdddieN wrote:
Wednesday 06 June 2018 21:17
I’m trying to find some guinea pigs for my device but so far no luck.... I thought your big 3 phase supply could be a good candidate :D
viewtopic.php?t=21403
I've read the whole thread twice, but I'm not sure what's the goal. Is it "just" to have Domoticz in a nice box DIN mounted and have some I/O for extensibility + the measurements?
Sorry, I completely missed this post. Think Loxone but with Domoticz and with open source and community support.

Quick question, does the electricity company pays much for switching your sockets?
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Wednesday 29 August 2018 8:26

EdddieN wrote:
Tuesday 28 August 2018 23:09
Sorry, I completely missed this post. Think Loxone but with Domoticz and with open source and community support.
Interesting idea. I'm more like a DIY guy, at least around the SW part and using "standard" HW pieces. With a "box" I'd like to have full support (SW, HW, configuration, etc.) and warranty then.
EdddieN wrote:
Tuesday 28 August 2018 23:09
Quick question, does the electricity company pays much for switching your sockets?
Depends on your tariff. For me, for example, the different between "high" and "low" is absolutely negligible - few € per month. For others it might be 60% cheaper in "low" (sockets on) compared to "high" (sockets off). Also different tariffs have different times/duration when the "low" is active.

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Wednesday 29 August 2018 9:21

Sounds complex the tariff.... can you post a link to the energy company tariff or promotional stuff? Very interested to know more about it
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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by cincuranet » Wednesday 29 August 2018 9:34

I wasn't able to find any document in English, neither the web is in English. This might be a start, but again, not in English. Some other links (might be easier to translate those using Google Translate): this, this, this, this.

If you want, send me a PM and we can jump on Skype and in 5-10 minutes I can give you overview of how it works here.

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Re: Getting the state of load management switch on budget

Post by EdddieN » Wednesday 29 August 2018 11:19

Great PM you already
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