big house project

Topics (not sure which fora)
when not sure where to post, post here and mods will move it to right forum.
Post Reply
ticketchu
Posts: 2
Joined: Wednesday 15 November 2017 21:35
Target OS: NAS (Synology & others)
Domoticz version:
Contact:

big house project

Post by ticketchu » Wednesday 15 November 2017 22:37

Hi all,
i am currenly building my own house and have been looking around for a perfect domotic solution and wanted some advice. Domoticz seemed perfect at the software side.
I care a lot about privacy, so i want so self host my domotic platfom.
Design: i want it to be:
* self hosted (i have a Synology NAS and a RPI3)
* not obligated to have an internet connection to work, a LAN with RJ45 and / or wifi should be allneeded. I don't want my system to ping a cloud every freaking time and manage my data by myself.
* multi protocol able (en ocean, z-wave, other stuff... why can't we all agree on an ISO ?)
* not noisy. visually and eary. this word does not exist, i know.
* highly programmable
* smartphone / laptop accessible and managable
* energy harvesting (i want to limit batteries use)
* higly secure (2FA maybe)
* usable even if you don't know how to code, for my familly who is not a software ingeneer like me)
* smallest captors as possible, nothing like those enormous plug boxes remote controlled.
* able to update all objects instead of buying botnet objects without their security planned to ever be fixed. hard one i know.
* user permissions
* pretty interface
Objectives:
* graphics dashboard
* follow electric consumption with a room detail level. a plug level of detail would be perfect
* follow water consumption
* exportable data in several formats. (JSON, csv, odt...)
* manage lights remotely
* detect presence (for lights, or music, or heat)
* monitor temperature in every room
* multi room music
* display videos on a projector without having to have the media in a computer on the same room
* run voice command from smartphone only
* link with garden portal
* watch garage door state. not certain about managing its opening. (the door will have a motor and a remote)
* get alerts on my phone for programmated cases
* a pack of objects to reduce cost would be great
* an exportable configuration that i could backup
So what should i look for with network cables, protocols adapter to rule them all and sensors?
There are just so many objects out here

RFMuser
Posts: 19
Joined: Wednesday 13 April 2016 13:03
Target OS: Raspberry Pi
Domoticz version:
Contact:

Re: big house project

Post by RFMuser » Wednesday 15 November 2017 23:07

Hi, a short answer for now.

I am in the middle of a custom new build project. And designed the automation system with Domoticz in mind. I tested several setups in the year before. I came up with the following solution.

- Main goal is to keep the system as opensource and flexible as possible
- Future proof (keep in mind selling the house one day)
- I created a basic layout during the build. Which I can build and automate once the house is ready

- Wired all lighting zones switch-wires back to the central technical space as a mix of conventional system and central system. In this way not too much extra wire is needed.
- Wall switches are wired with LAN wire as signal cable(cheap and many cores)
- Next to the wall switches in the room a DHT22 sensor is mounted using another pair of wires
- Centrally I use a RPI3 with Domoticz installed
- Arduino wired gateways are collecting sensor/switch/motion data and sending it to Domoticz. Who can also accept commands from Domoticz and control relays
- Where possible I use Milight spots/bulbs directly integrated in Domoticz. The switch wire of these are permanently connected to the 230v in the technical space. But can be changed if needed.
- If a Milight bulb is not possible, I will use dimmable led bulbs controlled by a 4 channel digital I2C dimmer.
- The central heating system is controlled by Evohome which is also integrated in Domoticz
- The smart consumption meter (landys&gyr) is also integrated into the system using a Arduino as gateway.
- Many more options, but still future proof in case I have to migrate to other solutions.

In a new build I should avoid wireless solutions. Although I use the Evohome partly wireless system, which works well.

DomoJev
Posts: 23
Joined: Friday 16 June 2017 23:40
Target OS: Raspberry Pi
Domoticz version:
Contact:

Re: big house project

Post by DomoJev » Thursday 16 November 2017 0:42

I don't agree with some of your advice:

* Ethernet is overkill for most control tasks. I would use Z-wave for most sensors (provided money is no showstopper). Z-Wave provides a mesh network with bidirectional messaging and in my experience it is very reliable.

* Evohome is crap. Lots of small anoying bugs in the firmware, unreliable and bad control characteristics. Also, it dials out to provide connection from the internet.

* Forget about battery powered sensors unless the really really is no other option. They *will* fail and wreak havoc in ways you can't imagine when the battery runs out of juice.

Personally, I would choose a RPi3 to host domoticz on. Don't run other tasks on it.

Restrict access from the net through vpn only. Don't mix with safetycritical systems like alarmsystems or smokedetectors, that's just "Not a Good Idea (tm)" IMHO.

The good thing about domoticz is its versitality. There's so many options you can play with... big plus! And no vendor lock-in...

RFMuser
Posts: 19
Joined: Wednesday 13 April 2016 13:03
Target OS: Raspberry Pi
Domoticz version:
Contact:

Re: big house project

Post by RFMuser » Thursday 16 November 2017 7:28

Good morning,
* Ethernet is overkill for most control tasks. I would use Z-wave for most sensors (provided money is no showstopper). Z-Wave provides a mesh network with bidirectional messaging and in my experience it is very reliable.
In my case I used LAN wiring as signal cable because it's cheap and has many cores. The wall switches are just pulse switches. I can use the same wire, different cores, to run the DHT22 temp/humidity senor data trough. Temp data is send to Evohome.
* Evohome is crap. Lots of small anoying bugs in the firmware, unreliable and bad control characteristics. Also, it dials out to provide connection from the internet.
Yes, Evohome has it's own control loops which are difficult/impossible to change. However, I don't use the wifi type and have the HGI80 who can directly send Evohome commands to the controllers. In this way it's also possible to use my own (wired) temp sensors, to avoid battery powered devices. Although I like to build my own OpenTherm control system, this will probably contain bugs at first as well. So having Evohome with the HGI80 and wired sensors is a good alternative for now.
Personally, I would choose a RPi3 to host domoticz on. Don't run other tasks on it.
Agree on this, I have the same setup which proves to be very reliable.

ticketchu
Posts: 2
Joined: Wednesday 15 November 2017 21:35
Target OS: NAS (Synology & others)
Domoticz version:
Contact:

Re: big house project

Post by ticketchu » Saturday 18 November 2017 12:53

thanks folks!
Evohome has a nice website with prices, which is nice. but are there any good other options to manage heating, and monitor electricity and water? (i won't have gas).
Didn,t know Milight, sounds way cheaper than any other product i were adviced for, like philips hue. if it does the job i will go with milight. i just hope it doesnt need to have access to internet, just the house internet box. Because i have crappy internet connection and don't want to rely on some distant cloud.
Sounds like domoticz would be better on the RPI3 alone, instead of with the NAS. but anyway i will need to have the NAS working all day. i switch it down to standby during night with automated tasks to save some power, because i use it mainly for home work as well as my wife does.

About heating i will have roof grids hidden at the top of the rooms, controlled in each room by a variator.
Any advice for these switches to make them smart and detect presence ?

i heard some nice feedback from Eltako products and KNX. but i don't know if it integrates well with Domoticz.

RFMuser
Posts: 19
Joined: Wednesday 13 April 2016 13:03
Target OS: Raspberry Pi
Domoticz version:
Contact:

Re: big house project

Post by RFMuser » Saturday 18 November 2017 16:29

Evohome has a nice website with prices, which is nice. but are there any good other options to manage heating, and monitor electricity and water?
I think Evohome is doing mainly heating/cooling. The prices on their website are higher than most websites show. If you want to monitor electricity there are many compatible solutions with Domoticz. I don't know where you live, but in the Netherlands everyone will have the digital consumption meter. This can be connected to Domoticz easily. There are also compatible consumer products. If you check the hardware list in Domoticz you can see all the compatible brands. The nice thing of Domoticz is, however, you can always use a virtual device and update it's value with your own script if a device isn't directly supported.
As I noted earlier. I use wired Arduino's which act as I/O gateway. The Arduino is collecting data and than updates the corresponding virtual devices in Domoticz. The other way around, they receive commands from Domoticz to switch relais. In some cases I use it as a local controller with pulse light switches as input, controlling the relais and updating Domoticz. If for what ever reason Domoticz is down, de lights are still controllable locally.

For the water monitoring I'm building the same setup with simple pulse flowmeters. Pulses are counted using the Arduino and the Domoticz virtual device gets updated.
Didn,t know Milight, sounds way cheaper than any other product i were adviced for, like philips hue. if it does the job i will go with milight. i just hope it doesnt need to have access to internet, just the house internet box.
Never rely on your internet provider. I have a standalone LAN network, trough which the devices communicate. Preferably wired. In case of Milight, it comes with a WiFI control box, which can be hacked into a wired device(which I didn't yet). All of it's functions can be contained inside you local network. I actually blocked the device from connecting to the outside world, because I discovered from network data captures, it's programmed to ping a website, probably for time synch purposes etc. But I don't want any device communicating to the internet without my permission.
The whole point of my lighting control plan is just not to rely on any brand or system. Therefore I prepared the wiring to a central point from where I can install any solution there comes available. In the "worst" case going back to a almost conventional system.

The only reason you might want to reach Domoticz from the outside world, is the "geofencing" feature to start function when you come close to your house.
Sounds like domoticz would be better on the RPI3 alone, instead of with the NAS.
I ran Domoticz on a Synology NAS for month's, with the same reason as you mention. The problem is the Synology gets many updates which usually break stuff on the Domoticz side. You end up fault finding the whole time, leaving you with an nonoperative system. The headless RPI3 is pulling hardly any power and gives you a very reliable system.
About heating i will have roof grids hidden at the top of the rooms, controlled in each room by a variator.
Any advice for these switches to make them smart and detect presence ?
Not sure how this heating solution actually works, you have some examples? Presence detection can also be done be PIR devices, combined with other solutions like geofencing, timers etc etc. I'm thinking about controlling the Evohome heating plans like "away" using a combination of inputs.

Today there isn't yet just one standard automation solution on the market, so keeping the infrastructure flexible is important.

Thomasdc
Posts: 236
Joined: Wednesday 11 March 2015 20:13
Target OS: Raspberry Pi
Domoticz version: Beta
Contact:

Re: big house project

Post by Thomasdc » Sunday 19 November 2017 19:59

I would also like to build my house with home automotion
i'm using domoticz allready for quite some time in the house i live in now
So i am opting to use domoticz in a new house also (i also have HomeAssistent and openhab in my mind, but never worked with it before)

I also want everything wired

but lik RFMuser said:
RFMuser wrote:
Saturday 18 November 2017 16:29
Today there isn't yet just one standard automation solution on the market, so keeping the infrastructure flexible is important.
whats importent for me its that is 'future proof'
what i mean by this is if something breaks down.. its easy replaceable, dont have to re-figure out everything,

I like the idea of good hardware. thats easy replaceable but doens't contain any logic, so if the hardware breaks down, just replace the module and its up and running again. (kinda how a PLC works, PLC cpu that contains all the logic, and then just input and output modules)

thats why i would lik dmx support for lights, that way i could foresee DMX hardware modules to connect my lights on..

maybe i thought on 'Unipi' ? its not that cheap but then again i preffere good hardware thats easy to replace and doens't neet te be programmed when replacing..

do you guys have any other suggestions like 'Unipi' ?

all idea's and suggestions are welcome!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests