Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

For Z-Wave related questions in Domoticz
XerachCruz
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Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Monday 06 November 2017 1:04

Hi, I want to redo the installation of my house to Z-Wave (I have it with RFLink on RP3 and chacon modules 433Mhz, but I need something work better), and since I start with Z-Wave, I would like to have all the modules in Z-Wave Plus.

Reading the forum a lot, I have chosen the AeonLabs USB Stick Z-Wave Plus, that I have seen that gives fewer problems that Razberry to install in RP3.

But I do not know which Z-Wave Plus switch modules to buy. I have seen that the FIBARO FGS-213 and 223 have issues and also those of Qubino have issues. I don't know if they are old posts and the issues are already solved in the last beta of Domoticz, or if are still having issues.

Please, someone with Z-Wave experience can tell me which Z-Wave Plus modules work without any issue in the last beta of Domoticz?.

I search a simple or double relay switch, something easy for begin, not complicated like a dimmer. It will be my first approach to Z-Wave and I would not like to have a bad experience since the first module. :)

Thank you very much to all in advance.

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by febalci » Monday 06 November 2017 15:16

Honestly, do not use ZWave at all. OpenZWave has issues, Aoetec Gen5 has issues, Qubino has issues etc. I am using 11 of Qubino Shutter modules with Aoetec Gen5. I spend a serious amount to set them up. I even give away openhab and started using Domoticz for only the ZWave issues. Resetted the modules at least 4 times so far with excluding and including. Everything works perfectly fine for 2 weeks, and one of the modules give up working as "Presumed Dead". So you have to exclude and include it again. Since my modules are flush shutter modules, i have to unscrew the switch plate, reset it, screw it back, it's a pain.

Sorry to say but, you will always have issues, onsolved problems etc. If you listen to me don't spend so much money on ZWave, go for mysensors or something else. I really had enough. But that's just my humble opinion.

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emme
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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by emme » Monday 06 November 2017 15:25

I use Aeotec Gen5, I use both Fibaro and Aeotec (soon CoolCam), no issue at all...
I have 6 rolling shutter which are working with no problems....

My only concern and errors are on the ALARM_FRAMES handling, but that is my ignorance :P
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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by tlpeter » Monday 06 November 2017 15:46

What a bullshit about zwave being bad. Most issues are range issues and nothing else.
zwave is a standard while MySensors is a hobby in my eyes.

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Eligos
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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by Eligos » Monday 06 November 2017 15:56

I use ZwavePlus, Zigbee, WiFi, LAN and Rfxcom 433Mhz all in my SmartHome Center with Domoticz. That's the good think on the multiple platform from Domoticz. You can use so many kinds of linked systems.All the system has Advantages and Disadvantages on here "world". And is a question of your smarthome budget ;-)

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XerachCruz
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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Tuesday 07 November 2017 13:41

Thank you very much to all.
tlpeter wrote:
Monday 06 November 2017 15:46
Most issues are range issues and nothing else.
My house is small, so I will not have range problems. :)
emme wrote:
Monday 06 November 2017 15:25
I use Aeotec Gen5, I use both Fibaro and Aeotec (soon CoolCam), no issue at all...
Eligos wrote:
Monday 06 November 2017 15:56
I use ZwavePlus, Zigbee, WiFi, LAN and Rfxcom 433Mhz all in my SmartHome Center with Domoticz.
Emme, Eligos. So what Z-Wave Plus switch modules do you recommend me to buy that will work at 100% today with Domoticz?

Again, thank you very much. :)

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by emme » Tuesday 07 November 2017 16:05

I use aeotec smartswitch because the physical switch does not need power but it is just a dry contact....
but unfortunately it seems that Aeotec has put them in EOL for the new nano switches line...

so.. fibaro will be my new choice (double for lights and single for power outlet/utilities)
ciao
M
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XerachCruz
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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Wednesday 08 November 2017 0:08

emme wrote:
Tuesday 07 November 2017 16:05
so.. fibaro will be my new choice (double for lights and single for power outlet/utilities)
Thanks, I choose Fibaro also.

I read the posts about the issues with FIBARO 223 one more time and appears that the issues had resolve with a uptade of OZW and one restart after pair the module. The first time I read it, I missed the page in which they commented that it has already been resolved.

I just bought 2 FIBARO 223 and USB Stick AeonLabs on Amazon, I hope to be lucky with the choice. In a week they will arrive, while I will look for information about what I have to do to install it (how to install OpenZWave, for example).

Thanks to all, and sorry for my bad english. :)

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by Eligos » Wednesday 08 November 2017 9:09

XerachCruz wrote:
emme wrote:
Tuesday 07 November 2017 16:05
so.. fibaro will be my new choice (double for lights and single for power outlet/utilities)
Thanks, I choose Fibaro also.

I read the posts about the issues with FIBARO 223 one more time and appears that the issues had resolve with a uptade of OZW and one restart after pair the module. The first time I read it, I missed the page in which they commented that it has already been resolved.

I just bought 2 FIBARO 223 and USB Stick AeonLabs on Amazon, I hope to be lucky with the choice. In a week they will arrive, while I will look for information about what I have to do to install it (how to install OpenZWave, for example).

Thanks to all, and sorry for my bad english. :)
Here are the wiki info about Domoticz and OZW. You can also find a list of supported OZW devices. https://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Zwave
My ZWave Plus Controller is a Razberry 2 on my Ri3.

If i use Zwave devices, i prefer the Zwave Plus devices. But i have also new ZwavePlus devices without OZW full support, yet ;-) it's in clarification and implantation by OZW. (f.e. https://www.eurotronic.org/en/products/ ... -plus.html)

Fibaro devices are great but not so cheap but ok for a smart home budget ;-)

ZWave Plus Features:

- 50% improvement in battery life
- 67% improvement in range
- 250% more bandwidth
- Three RF channels for improved noise immunity and higher bandwidth
- New Plug-n-Play Network-wide
Inclusion feature
- Improved self-healing and fault tolerance with Explorer Frame feature
- Standardized method for Over the Air firmware updates (OTA)Improved product information capture for product certification database
Source: https://z-wavealliance.org/z-wave_plus_certification/


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LouiS22
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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by LouiS22 » Wednesday 08 November 2017 12:53

Eligos wrote:
Wednesday 08 November 2017 9:09
XerachCruz wrote:
emme wrote:
Tuesday 07 November 2017 16:05
so.. fibaro will be my new choice (double for lights and single for power outlet/utilities)
Thanks, I choose Fibaro also.

I read the posts about the issues with FIBARO 223 one more time and appears that the issues had resolve with a uptade of OZW and one restart after pair the module. The first time I read it, I missed the page in which they commented that it has already been resolved.

I just bought 2 FIBARO 223 and USB Stick AeonLabs on Amazon, I hope to be lucky with the choice. In a week they will arrive, while I will look for information about what I have to do to install it (how to install OpenZWave, for example).

Thanks to all, and sorry for my bad english. :)
Here are the wiki info about Domoticz and OZW. You can also find a list of supported OZW devices. https://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Zwave
My ZWave Plus Controller is a Razberry 2 on my Ri3.

If i use Zwave devices, i prefer the Zwave Plus devices. But i have also new ZwavePlus devices without OZW full support, yet ;-) it's in clarification and implantation by OZW. (f.e. https://www.eurotronic.org/en/products/ ... -plus.html)

Fibaro devices are great but not so cheap but ok for a smart home budget ;-)

ZWave Plus Features:

- 50% improvement in battery life
- 67% improvement in range
- 250% more bandwidth
- Three RF channels for improved noise immunity and higher bandwidth
- New Plug-n-Play Network-wide
Inclusion feature
- Improved self-healing and fault tolerance with Explorer Frame feature
- Standardized method for Over the Air firmware updates (OTA)Improved product information capture for product certification database
Source: https://z-wavealliance.org/z-wave_plus_certification/


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Don't expect the OTA function, I never seen any of that in work...

XerachCruz
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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Wednesday 08 November 2017 14:39

Eligos wrote:
Wednesday 08 November 2017 9:09
Fibaro devices are great but not so cheap but ok for a smart home budget ;-)
No problem if the modules are a little more expensive while they work well. My house is very small, with these 2 modules with double switch that I bought, I cover 1/3 of the lamps in my house. :P
Eligos wrote:
Wednesday 08 November 2017 9:09
Here are the wiki info about Domoticz and OZW. You can also find a list of supported OZW devices. https://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Zwave
My ZWave Plus Controller is a Razberry 2 on my Ri3.
Thank you very much for the info. I bought the USB Stick AeonLabs because I read it would be easier to install in RP3 than Razberry (I have read that with Razberry is necessary deactivate the bluetooth and I use it for the keyboard and the mouse of my RP3. Is it correct or is not necessary deactivate it?). And is also possible that in the future I will migrate Domoticz to a Synology NAS ... maybe someday I will need to renew my humble NAS to something more professional... I hope I did not make a mistake in the election. :)

One question, do you know if the tutorial of the wiki to install Razberry in Domoticz can be followed to install the USB Stick AeonLabs?. Or the procedure is different?

Again, thank you very much.

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by lost » Wednesday 08 November 2017 18:40

XerachCruz wrote:
Monday 06 November 2017 1:04
I have chosen the AeonLabs USB Stick Z-Wave Plus, that I have seen that gives fewer problems that Razberry to install in RP3.

But I do not know which Z-Wave Plus switch modules to buy. I have seen that the FIBARO FGS-213 and 223 have issues and also those of Qubino have issues.
Made the same choice 1 year ago for the controller: The feature I liked was the ability to make inclusions in standalone mode (using it's internal battery+button) as they must be done close to controller (to avoid pairing the neighbor modules if doing the same at the same time I presume... Or for z-wave+ secure inclusions, exchange symmetric crypto-key at reduced radio power to minimize intercept likelihood).

On top of that, this key have a included modules backup feature that may prove useful if it fails: Just buy the same one, restore backup and everything should work. Windows only utility (=> cannot do this directly on the PI), but at least something exists...

Just take care to modify default crypto-key in Domoticz (+ in the key, using windows utility) before first secure inclusion if you plan to use this feature.

For module choice, select some that fit your needs, avoid brand new ones that may still lack OZW support and search in the forum for user problems, if any. But after that, adding support is usually translating some module documentation in a XML file OZW will use. They are located under domoticz/Config (a file indexes all modules config files, by manufacturer and device IDs ; These files are under a subdir, per manufacturer : Checking existence for a module you plan to buy will, you'll be able to check OZW support)

Any brand may have modules that cause problems, but on a type by type basis: I have 8 qubino heater control modules that work perfectly, another that fits in my garage door motor. Qubino have a dry contact module that can be powered using 220Vac or 24Vdc (the last being quite common inside door motor control): 24v may not be useful for just controlling the door, the dry relay is not connected to any power source & is just a contact to wire in parallel of usual local push-button command, but if you have a "door closed" info available on some motor control board pins (this is usually a switch config option used by options: Like a light that remains on while the door is opened), it may be a 0/24Vdc thus powering with this voltage a module that also have en input it's 1 module for 2 functions : Command and open/close check!
Only one qubino module proved buggy: A smart-meter, OK for metering but really dumb on relay control side (long to update state info, fooling OZW: Had to script to make it work).

I have Fibaro PIRs working well, Zipato PIR+door close sensor that needed tuning association groups after inclusion. Some needing parameters tuning (a nice feature of z-wave, these config param, now copied by enocean last evolution under a different name) to fit my needs...

I summary, nothing I could not use for now.

The only problem I had was after an upgrade: Some modules appeared with IDs at 0/0 after restart on new version. Only battery powered ones. Some recovered after a wake-up, others not. Had to reinclude some & it's a pain in the arse!

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Thursday 09 November 2017 16:49

Thank you very much Lost. :)

I have to learn many things about Z-Wave, with these modules that I have buy, I will begin to document me and experiment.

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Thursday 16 November 2017 14:13

Well, my first Z-Wave modules have arrived (2 Fibaro FGS-223 v3.2) and I instaled the first... and they have 2 issues. :(

When actionate them from Domoticz it causes double events:

- for Q1: if I click ON, the events show ON ON and for OFF show OFF OFF.
- for Q2: if I click ON, show ON ON ... but if I click OFF, show OFF ON, leaving the status of the bulb upside down.

And the another issue is that S2 does not return the status to Domoticz, so when pressing the physical switch on the wall, the bulb changes its status, but the change is not reflected in domoticz. However, S1 return the status instantly

When activating the polling for the module, in the following check it changes to the correct state, but this can happen up to a minute later.

Reading in another posts, I tryed to correct the problem with the S2 status, eliminating the line from fgs223.xml <CommandClass id = "38" getsupported = "false" /> ... but they do not fix anything, the issue continues.


Anyone have a solution?, please. Especially so that S2 updates its status in Domoticz correctly and instantly. :(

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by lost » Thursday 16 November 2017 17:39

XerachCruz wrote:
Thursday 16 November 2017 14:13
Anyone have a solution?, please. Especially so that S2 updates its status in Domoticz correctly and instantly. :(
Search the forum for the double event, I think I read this somewhere else.

For status reporting, I had this kind of problems for modules that lacked some group association (not done automagically at pairing). I remember a Philio multi-sensor that needed to be in association group 2 to report it's events. Check documentation info vs OZW one in hardware tab/zstick/node mgt/groups&network.

In fact, a bad status reporting may cause the double event, so solving last issue may also solve first: As z-wave reports statuses back, I've seen OZW sending commands again when the report was slow (thinking the command did not made it's way to the module? My qubino smart-meter have this pb on relay control side).

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Sunday 19 November 2017 14:41

I have excluded and included the modules again (this time using the Domoticz interface instead the button of Z-Stick) and all issues have been solved, except the double events.

First I included it again on secure mode, but in addition to double events, sometimes I had timeout of a few seconds. So I exclude again, and include in normal mode from the interface of Domoticz and now the S2 issues has resolve without timeouts.

The only issue now is the double events when switch ON/OFF the lights from Domoticz, from the wall switchs all is OK.
lost wrote:
Thursday 16 November 2017 17:39
For status reporting, I had this kind of problems for modules that lacked some group association (not done automagically at pairing). I remember a Philio multi-sensor that needed to be in association group 2 to report it's events. Check documentation info vs OZW one in hardware tab/zstick/node mgt/groups&network.
I have tried it, but I can not understand how the group&network configuration is used. :(

Do you know any tutorial or video tutorial on how that interface is used?

Thank you very much. :)

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by leby » Sunday 19 November 2017 17:00

/lennart

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Monday 20 November 2017 2:10

leby wrote:
Sunday 19 November 2017 17:00
https://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Zwave_net ... group_info
has some god info
Thanks, I read it and now I understand a little more. I understand that groups are used for modules to interact with each other, even without having to go through the controller. In the groups of each node, you put the number of the node that will be affected by that action. Right?

I have a doubt, why my controller appears as "1.1" in the groups, instead of just "1" as I have seen in other images?. What meanig this?

Image

I have try 3 configurations and not fix the double events issue:

- With the A and B config, happens the same, the events are doubles in the switch logs when I use the lights through Domoticz, but from the physical wall switch not happens. Everything else is OK.

- With the C config, there are no double events when operating it through Domoticz, but many times the light does not react to the click, leave the state upside down (ON in Domoticz but OFF really, or vice versa).
Also with this config, from the wall switch the state never change in Domoticz and the energy usage showed is 0 Watt, so I guess there's no signal sending from the module, just reception.
When I restart the system, the config changes automatically to the B config, so I guess Group 1 should always go to the controller and the C config is not possible/correct.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong?, or the double events with the Fibaro FGS223 are really a issue from Domoticz or OZW and I can`t fix it with configuration?

What would be the correct configuration?

Thank you very much to all. :)

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by leby » Monday 20 November 2017 7:39

As far as I understand A is the correct config, don't think your problem has to do with this part of config.
Lifeline should always be assigned to the controller and can not be used for more than 1 association as I have understood it.
I do also have double click but it is not a problem in my setup.
/lennart

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Re: Z-Wave Plus modules 100% compatible?

Post by XerachCruz » Tuesday 21 November 2017 1:55

leby wrote:
Monday 20 November 2017 7:39
As far as I understand A is the correct config, don't think your problem has to do with this part of config.
Thank you very much, I will keep that configuration then.
leby wrote:
Monday 20 November 2017 7:39
I do also have double click but it is not a problem in my setup.
With what modules you have the double events issue?. You also have a Fibaro FGS-223 or the issue happens with more doble switch modules?.

Thanks again. :)

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