watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Compatibility (hardware, devices and OS)
cwavontuur
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watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by cwavontuur » Friday 13 December 2013 19:26

Is there anyone who has been trying to get his watermeter smartly metered.
Type: Elster V200 PR6P:1

What kind of sensor have you used?
And what kind of setup have you chosen?
My thoughts are on using Raspberry PI with PIFace.

Many thanks in advance for your feedback,
Brgds
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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Peter112 » Saturday 14 December 2013 16:29

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by cwavontuur » Saturday 14 December 2013 18:59

Great.

That sensor should be fitting my watermeter.

Have been trying to find one for some time,

many thanks,
cwavontuur

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Keptenkurk » Saturday 14 December 2013 19:28

Wow, you can buy lots of water for that...
I will first try to see if this el cheapo sensor is able to sense the half moon metal disc in the Elster. It'll take a few weeks but will report results in this thread.
/paul

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by cwavontuur » Saturday 14 December 2013 19:38

Thanks Guy's

This discussion is getting more interesting by the minute.

We now know what the royal / expensive way forward will cost
and possibly a solution through a cheaper alternative sensor.

I haven't given up on my lowpowerlab.com ee-sy310 breakout, but so far haven't been able to get it switching.
And that should be the starting point.

This evening one of my friends is coming over to give it a final try.

Brgds
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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Peter112 » Sunday 15 December 2013 11:34

watermeters with possibility to interface with other systems are most diveded in two

1 Reedcontact reedcontact ex
In the watermeter there is small magnet mounted wich activates the reedswitch ( for small meters most 1L/Pulse)

2 proximity sensor Proximity sensor
(picture example proximity sensor on my gasmeter KromSchroder)
Proximity sensor react on metals

The goal is to find out what system elster V200 uses
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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by cwavontuur » Sunday 15 December 2013 14:45

Yesterday's discussion with my friends led to the conclusion that most likely the lowpowerlab.com ee-sy310 breakout is dead
aka I must have done something wrong to blow up the component or it arrived busted.

Never mind.

To add to the discussion on Reed or proximity - contact.
I have added a photo of a part of my watermeter with the metal element.

Are there any firm conclusions to be drawn from this photo?

Brgds
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Attachments
elster watermeter detail 3.png
watermeter detail
elster watermeter detail 3.png (146.71 KiB) Viewed 8134 times

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Keptenkurk » Sunday 15 December 2013 18:42

At least that's the same as mine! I tried my CNY70 sensor to detect the metal disc but the cny70 only does a good job at black/white detection. It served well measuring electricity until i had a smart meter installed with P1 cable to have the gas usage also monitored.
If the metal disc would be magnetic the reed contact proposed below would be the cheapest solution of all!
/paul

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Peter112 » Sunday 15 December 2013 19:24

You could try with a small piece of iron hanging on sewing-thread to see if it moves as the meter is counting water.

If it is magnetic you vcan buy a reed switch http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/daten ... _313_3.pdf or http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/daten ... _10_VA.pdf
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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by cwavontuur » Tuesday 17 December 2013 11:15

Hi Guys

This morning held a little compass to the turning metal part but observed no reaction what so ever.

The specs mention magnet free communication interface.
specs http://www.elster.nl/downloads/V200V210 ... Engels.pdf

So I doubt the metal item is magnetic.

Brgds
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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by alfred_j_kwak » Tuesday 17 December 2013 11:36

I suppose that you could consider inductive sensor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_sensor
Maybe something like this: https://www.distrelec.nl/elfa3~nl_nl/el ... 7-21&cat=0

Problem with inductive sensor could be power supply and voltage levels (usually 24VDC).
You also need to know distance between sensor and metal disk in your meter.

-Jussi-

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Keptenkurk » Tuesday 17 December 2013 11:59

Right Jussi, that's what i'll try when the thing arrives from China :-)
Reading more about the Elster interface: it's seems to be targeted to remote metering by the water supplier company (supports backward flow, tampering signalling etc). Therefore i think that a simple reflector or inductive senor will do for our purpose.
/paul

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Peter112 » Tuesday 17 December 2013 13:09

http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family ... ation.html ( check the sensing distance 0 to 1.9 mm with the elster) or something like this with more sensing distance http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family ... ation.html

these function on 12 Volts, the output can be reduced with resistors to match your circuit for 5 or 3,3 volt
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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by alfred_j_kwak » Tuesday 17 December 2013 13:19

Peter112 wrote:http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family ... ation.html ( check the sensing distance 0 to 1.9 mm with the elster) or something like this with more sensing distance

these function on 12 Volts, the output can be reduced with resistors to match your circuit for 5 or 3,3 volt
Yes and this works with 5 VDC. http://www.newark.com/telemecanique-sen ... dp/16B3571
I just want to point out, that one should pay attention when selecting sensor. Also those special voltage sensors could be expensive.
24VDC sensors could also be found as used devices.

-Jussi-

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by cwavontuur » Tuesday 17 December 2013 18:44

Hi Guy's

Am I correct in concluding that the alternatives to the Falcon PR6 are not that easily picked?

Brgds
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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by alfred_j_kwak » Tuesday 17 December 2013 19:26

If you like to have something that snaps right on your watermeter - then yes. :)


-Jussi-

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Keptenkurk » Thursday 19 December 2013 21:29

Today, to my surprise, the USD 7,99 metal sensor from China arrived by airmail (only took them 12 days!).
Luckily the specs are printed on the device because they differ way from the specs on the dx.com website.
This one has a three wire connection 6..36V DC and NPN (instead of 5~36V PNP) but also detects metal within 4mm.
It's an "OMOHON" device :P (yes: sounds like ... see posts below).
sku_151198_1.jpg
sku_151198_1.jpg (13.76 KiB) Viewed 8058 times
3wnpn.gif
3wnpn.gif (3.06 KiB) Viewed 8058 times
Quickly hooked it up to a 5.4V supply. Because it has a LED on the back, detection is simply visible without connecting it up to the PiFace yet. The LED lits up faintly when metal is near and power consumption for the device itself is only 0,4mA.
Then the big test: will it detect the Elster disc? === IT DOES === !!
When pushing the sensor against the meter window a nice pulse is provided when the disc passes by.
At 12V DC it draws a mere 4 mA and the LED lits nicely. So probably the 5V from the raspberry will not be enough.
Next will be to build a construction which keeps the sensor in place and a small circuit to adjust the output to the PiFace levels.
...to be continued...

/paul

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by bistoury » Thursday 19 December 2013 22:59

Thanks for reporting. Sound promising ! Il have a similar water counter (aquadis) that works with a similar standardized pulse detector. Wating for your investigations :)

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by Keptenkurk » Wednesday 25 December 2013 17:12

Today i mounted and connected the proximity sensor and got it all working.
So now we are singing "Let it flow, let it flow, let it flow" :P

Merry Christmas to you all and a big THANK YOU to all involved with Domoticz.
/paul
the parts.jpg
The parts
the parts.jpg (145.48 KiB) Viewed 8023 times
mounted sensor.jpg
Mounted on the Elster meter
mounted sensor.jpg (114.92 KiB) Viewed 8023 times
EDIT: Changed the schematic to use a reed relay instead of the 2N7000 Mosfet
Proximity-Sensor.png
Schematic
Proximity-Sensor.png (11.93 KiB) Viewed 7976 times
Last edited by Keptenkurk on Saturday 28 December 2013 21:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: watermeter Elster V200 PR6P:1

Post by mbliek » Wednesday 25 December 2013 18:50

Do you mind too write a how to?
Would like to have something like this.

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